Experiences of International Education
Welcome to Experiences of International Education, a Q-intled podcast which explores the varied field of international education through the lenses of individual experiences.
Talking with a wide range professionals, practitioners and experts around the globe, the podcast explores individual journeys through international education, sharing interests and passions, views on challenges and opportunities, rewarding experiences and memorable ones.
At the same time, it will be a way to appreciate the variety of human experiences and perspectives through the lens of international education ...
'...nice nice very nice, so many different people, in the same device...'
A heartfelt thank you to Dave Soldier, of EEG records, who has kindly allowed us to use an extract from 'Nice Very Nice' (from the 'Ice 9 Ballads' album, composed and performed with Kurt Vonnegut) as the theme for this series of podcasts.
You can access the podcast on the following platforms:
Brandon Lee (former CEO of the Singapore Council for Private Education) tells us about how he entered the international education space through the regulation of private education in Singapore, which cover partnerships with international universities. Brandon shares his views about the future of international education in Singapore, reflecting on how the high cost of living in the country will continue to act as a constrain to in-bound international students mobility, and how TNE growth will depend on its ability to demonstrate local relevance... and a memorable football match at Dubai's Academic City
Ellen Hazelkorn, Professor Emeritus at Technological University Dublin, and one of the leading commentators on international education, tells us how she started her journey in international education by researching global university rankings for the OECD in the early 2000s. She reminds us how the simplistic nature of ranking is what make them so popular, but also problematic, and how quality assurance oversight would be a less blunt tool to inform government decisions and policy for higher education. She also shares insights into recent work she has done with a range of countries, including Ireland and Wales, to foster stronger links between vocational and higher education to support flexible learning pathways… and memorable work supporting the development of quality assurance in Saint Kittis and Nevis
Christopher Hill (Professor at the Faculty of Education of the British University in Dubai) shares the professional twists and turns that have taken him from the UK to Malaysia and Dubai, playing a frontline role in making TNE happen. He reminds us how with TNE host countries maturing, their priority is shifting from quantity to quality and relevance, and of the importance in international education of being prepared to question your assumptions , being able to adjust to cultural difference and drop our cultural baggage... as he quickly learned in a memorable visit to Tanzania
Stig Arne Skjerven, Norway's Deputy Permanent Delegate to UNESCO and Chair of UNESCO Global Recognition Convention Bureau, provides us with a deep dive into the Global Recognition Convention, how the international education community got there, its rationale, its ambitions, its progress, and importantly its socially progressive potential, opening up study, work and life choices to individuals around the world and also easing brain drain. He further shares important work he has been involved in with regards to the Qualifications Passport for Refugees... and the memorable moment in summer 2023 when state parties to the Global Recognition Convention gathered for the first time after its coming into force.
Jazreel Goh, Director British Council Malaysia, (and former Director of Education British Council China), shares her passion for international education as a life-changing opportunity, starting from when she met an international education advisor as an international student preparing to go to Australia. She reminds us of the importance of not losing sight of the 'very unique experience of very unique individuals' when we work in international education. She shares insights into historical and current developments of TNE in Malaysia, and East Asia. She emphasises the potential of TNE as a means to widening access to international education, and supporting the development of local education providers and systems. ... and the memorable and rewarding experience of helping develop TNE operations, following their progress from first milestones to graduation.
Prof. Varghese, former Vice Chancellor of the National University of Educational Planning and Administration in New Delhi takes us through the key steps and achievements of his professional career, whilst sharing insights and considerations about the challenges associated with internationalisation in India, and beyond. He introduces the key concept of 'high cost, high return pathway' in student mobility patterns, with implications for post-study visas as a means to recover the costs of an international education, and the opportunities posed by in-bound TNE to reduce costs. He reflects on the future of India as an education hub, the need to make more inclusive internationalisation processes in education… and the memorable experience of helping developing countries in obtaining funding to develop their education systems.
Professor Judith Lamie, Pro Vice-Chancellor for International Engagement at Swansea University in Wales, reminds us of the importance of diversity and cooperation for finding the needed solutions to today’s challenges, hence the importance of engaging internationally. Sharing her pathway into and through international education, from the early days of international student recruitment to today’s attention to TNE as a means to widening access, she reflects on some of the key challenges facing the UK sector today, without losing sight of the important role that international education plays in opening up life-changing opportunities to people, and the enriching experiences of meeting so many different people with different cultures and perspectives… and the memorable experience of a stranger in Japan walking her and her mother to their destination without speaking English and then bowing goodbye.
Amy Baker, CEO and co-founder of the Pie News, shares with us the origins of her interest and involvement in intled, going back to an initial work experience for a magazine aimed at education agents placing students into language schools. She tells us about the main milestones in the growth of the Pie News as one of the most trusted and leading voices in international education, starting from the initial idea, shared with co-founders Clare Gossage and Jane Gilham, of creating a media and jobs platform for all Professionals in International Education. She reflects on some of the key challenges facing international student recruitment in traditional receiving countries, and the main opportunities to look out for, including TNE... and that memorable experience of having to find last minute a new location for a large event, as attendees were already en route (even considering her back garden)
Dr. Douglas Proctor, Pro Vice-Chancellor (Global Engagement) at Swinburne University of Technology in Melbourne, Australia, shares with us his insights and thoughts on intled developments in Australia, with significant parallels to current developments in other traditional receiving countries of international students and sending countries of TNE, such as the UK. He also shares his experience of having been involved in the Irish international education sector.
Douglas stresses the life-shaping power of international education, the importance of widening access to international education experiences, and the key role that TNE can play in this. He reflects on the complementary roles of international student recruitment and TNE, and the need to make external stakeholders and communities understand and appreciate the benefit of internationalised campuses... recalling, in the end, the memorable experience of the first graduation ceremony at Swinburne Vietnam campus.
Ep. 10: Sarah Todd (a view from down under)
Sara Todd, Vice-President (Global) at Griffith University, and former President of the Asia Pacific Association for International Education, tells us how her passion for international education started at a very early age from a keen interest in languages and cultures. Sarah shares her considerations about some of the key challenges facing the Australian higher education sector, in particular concerning restrictions to international student recruitment and lack of understanding and appreciation of the contribution that international students bring to their hosting communities. She points to the growing importance of international partnerships, going beyond student mobility, and including TNE, to address todays' global challenges, in particular with regard to the sustainability agenda.... and she shares the memorable experience of hosting the Dalai Lama when she was with the University of Otago in New Zealand
Prof Dhanjay Jhurry, Managing Director of Uniciti International Education Hub and former Vice-Chancellor of the University of Mauritius, offers us a deep dive into the making of Mauritius an international education hub, and the critical role played in this effort by the Medine group in establishing Uniciti International Education Hub. Prof. Jhurry stresses the vital role of partnerships in international education to address today's pressing challenges, in particular those associated with sustainable development. International partnerships are vital for an island like Mauritius that needs to build bridges with the international community to address the unmet demand for education and training. ...He also shares the memorable experiences of serving in the Council of The Association of Commonwealth Universities and recently taking part in a discussion panel about skills gaps in the UK, which resonated very much with his experience internationally, bringing the point home again that we all share common challenges, and that it is through cooperation that we can find best solutions to those shared challenges
Vangelis Tsiligkiris, Professor of International Education at Nottingham Trent University, and founder of the TNE Hub, shares with us his international education journey as an international student in the UK first, then as a lecturer and director of a UK TNE partner in Greece, then back to the UK as an academic and TNE expert and commentator. He stresses the critical function that TNE plays in widening access to international education to people who would not otherwise be able to afford to travel internationally, and shares some of the key challenges associated with TNE. He tells us about the potential of Greece to establish itself as a TNE hub following recent regulatory changes, and points to changing patterns in international student mobility due to increasing local supply of quality education internationally... and he shares the memorable experience of going full circle when called to review a TNE partnership of his UK Alma Mater.
Mary Stiasny, OBE, Professor Emerita and former Pro Vice Chancellor (International, Teaching and Learning) at the University of London, takes us through her international education journey, from her initial involvement with international education at Goldsmiths, University of London in the early days of international student recruitment in the UK, then as Director of Education and Training at the British Council, through to her recent role as PVC at the University of London. We discuss the benefits and the potential of online learning as a means to widening global access to education and international education, and the recognition challenges that online education still encounters.
Mary emphasises the importance of knowledge diplomacy and the critical role that international education can play in helping shape constructive international relations and navigate difficult and shifting geopolitics. She also highlights how TNE is increasingly moving towards the development of equal partnerships and reciprocal relationships... and she shares a memorable challenging journey from Lahore to Karachi, via Islamabad, as flights from Lahore had been put on hold, just in time to run an event in the evening.
Cheryl Yu shares her international education journey with us, starting with progressing from being a student at a TNE collaborative partner of a UK university to joining the international partnership team of that UK institution, through to moving into independent consultancy helping set up TNE partnerships and articulation arrangements with Chinese institutions. Cheryl gives an overview of the evolving Chinese TNE landscape, reflecting on the pros and cons of the different possible models of TNE in China, the changing motivations for Chinese students to pursue international studies, and their changing perceptions about the quality and utility of a 'Western' education ...and she shares with us the challenges involved in transitioning into consultancy, and how she spent that transition time into thinking how it is possible to make the world a better place through international education, resulting in her published book 'Critical Reflection of the Internationalization of Higher Education in the Global South.'
Dr. Vicky Lewis, tells us about her path into international education and consultancy, starting from a life-changing year abroad in Germany as a high school student. Vicky tells us about her experiences working in HE providers across the UK nations, including setting up international offices, at a time when international student recruitment was booming. She shares how she started looking at different drivers and approaches to internationalisation across the UK HE sector through her DBA in Higher Education Management, and how this eventually motivated her to take the plunge into consultancy. Vicky also tells us how her DBA research looked at what she calls ‘integrated internationalism’, that ethos of international cooperation that is currently being challenged in many countries, including traditionally receiving countries of international students, and that she believes could underpin today’s growing calls for equitable TNE partnerships … and she shares the memorable experience of walking barefoot, exhausted, along a beach in Penang at sunset after one of the multi-country British Council recruitment missions back in the early days of such missions, and thinking how lucky she was of working in intled.
Beka Tavartkiladze, Senior Director Global Education and Knowledge at World Education Services (WES), tells us how he seized the opportunities that opened up with the collapse of the Soviet Union. From Georgia he travelled to the United States to pursue his studies, first as a High School student and then in higher education. He shares with us what her refers to as 'a calling', his commitment and passion for supporting other students internationally to make the most of an international education experience, a calling that has driven his professional career since joining WES in 2002. Beka reflects on changing international mobility patterns which he sees as being increasingly no longer dominated by the linear Global South-Global North direction, and considers the growing importance of transnational education and online learning as means to widen access to an international education experience. He expands on some of the key challenges regarding credential evaluation that he has been grappling with over the years... and shares some of the challenges of being an international student, including being an international student in the US coming from Georgia the country, not the US State!
Dr. James Keevy, CEO of JET Education Services in South Africa, and former Director International Liaison at the South African Qualifications Authority (SAQA), tells us of his first involvement with international education as South Africa was opening up, exploring connections to Africa, Europe and North America. James reflects on the potential role of South Africa as an education hub for the region, and some of the key challenges associated with it, such as lack of supply and social tensions. He shares with us his interest and current work in exploring how innovation in digital technology can support credential evaluation, and ultimately lifelong learning and the mobility of skills, competencies, and qualifications... and fascinating considerations on required innovation in quality assurance and recognition, driven by a focus on learning outcomes, to support the flexible learning required by today's societies and economy. He further shares recent work he has been involved in on developing an African continental qualifications framework ... and the memorable experience of early work with UNESCO looking at developing world reference levels capable of supporting flexible learning pathways.
Ep. 18: Aneta Hayes (beyond a deficit view of international students)
Dr. Aneta Hayes, Reader in Education and Dean of Internationalisation and Partnerships at Keele University, shares with us her international education journey starting with an interest in applied linguistics that took her to Bahrain to teach in an international school and then at a TNE operation. She tells us of her specific interest in the internationalisation of the curriculum and the campus, and stresses the need to move beyond a deficit view of international students and reconceptualise what an international student is to adopt more inclusive approaches to internationalisation. Aneta also tells us about the work of the Monitoring and Evaluation Tools working group which she chairs, set up by UUK International to support the collection of more granular data for UK TNE... and shares the memorable experience of working with Syrian refugees in Lebanon to support the portability of informal learning, and the ethical questions she posed herself as a researcher.
Dr. Anthony Manning, Dean for Global and Lifelong Learning at the University of Kent, and Chair of the Internationalisation at Home working group of Universities UK International, tells us about his initial connection with international education through a passion for languages that brought him in different teaching capacities in a Germany, France, China and Japan. Anthony stresses the transformative power of international education, helping people developing that cultural intelligence that allow us to see things from different perspectives, and find best solutions to today's global challenges. He also stresses the importance of widening opportunities to be exposed to an international experience to students unable to travel internationally through internationalisation at home initiatives, as well as the importance of raising awareness within local communities of the valuable contribution of international students... and he shares the memorable experience of talking to a student, who was supported by the university through its sanctuary scholarship system, and hearing how after having been supported by the social care system when circumstances had thrown him into the asylum system he decided to change his studies from computer science to social care to give back to society.
Nigel Healey, Professor of International Higher Education and Vice-President Global and Community Relations at the University of Limerick, tells us how his connection with international education started as an academic in business schools, which in the 1990s were in the vanguard of internationalisation. From there he started to be increasingly involved in international student mobility and partnerships covering senior international roles at universities in different countries, including as former Vice-Chancellor of Fiji National University. Nigel shares his view of the key differences between the approaches to international education in the different countries he worked in, stressing the different extent to which internationalisation is primarily seen as a commercial activity. He stresses the importance of widening opportunities to gain international experience to more students, including through the development of deep and equitable partnerships based on two-way mobility agreements. He also points to the growing role that considerations related to global social justice and sustainable development will be playing in shaping the future of international education, including through a growing awareness of its carbon footprint. …and he shares his memorable experiences as economic policy advisor to the prime minister of Belarus just after the end of the Cold War, and being Vice Chancellor of Fiji National University, a university of such a critical importance to the economic development of Fiji that the Minister would be on speed-dial.
Prof. Simon Guy, PVC Global at Lancaster University shares his international education journey from the early stages of his academic career in urban architecture to these days leading the University of Lancaster's strategy to extend its global reach. We talk about the innovative approach adopted in establishing the new joint campus with Deakin University in Bandung, Indonesia, and the example of equitable and deep partnership with Sunway University in Malaysia. Simon shares his views about the current boundless opportunities for growing TNE operations, and the critical importance of adopting decolonising approaches based on co-design, co-development, and equality and underpinning TNE growth with sound due diligence. He also tells us of the important work of the UK International Campus Alliance Network in sharing best practices across the sector... and shares the memorable experience of having be made an honorary Victorian for a day attending the Global Business Forum at the G20 Summit in Bali and briefing the Australian Prime Minister about the Deakin-Lancaster new joint project in Indonesia.
Rebecca Hall, Assistant Director-General Policy, External Relations and International at Queensland Department of Education, shares her journey in international education starting with her undergraduate studies in International Business, which took her doing an internship in Malaysia., and how the importance of internationalization crystallised for her when she went to Japan on the JET program. She tells about the growing opportunities for transnational education in the international school market, and for Australian education providers more generally in the context of current policy changes around international student recruitment. Rebecca emphasises the importance for the international educator sector, in Australia and beyond, to maintain their social licence, including by tracking the benefits of international education and sharing those benefits with society at large... and she shares the memorable experience of developing in the early days of the career an innovative partnership in Chile with TAFE Queensland
Mike Winter, OBE, Director International Affairs at the University of London, and former Director of IOE International, tells us of his international education journey which has taken him to cover different roles at the British Council, including eventually Director of Education Japan. Mike emphasises the critical importance for the education sector, internationally, to move beyond competition, and embrace cooperation to address today’s global challenges and make progress toward the SDGs. He shares some of the work that the University of London is doing and has been doing over the years in this space, particularly providing access to education in challenging contexts, including current cooperation with the UN High Commission for Refugees. Mike stresses how TNE can contribute to international development, and the importance of moving from a narrative based on export to one that highlights the role that international education can play to address shared global challenges, a narrative of equitable and sustainable, as well as scalable, TNE… and he shares the memorable experience of bringing two editions of the Royal Institutions Christmas Lectures to schoolchildren in São Paolo, when he was Director of British Council Brazil
Ep. 24: Ellen Rose (realising people's potential... and a branch campus in Costa Rica)
Ellen Rose, Executive Director at Texas Tech Costa Rica, tells us how she first went to Costa Rica for six months as she needed to demonstrate proficiency in a second language to undertake her doctoral research, and how eventually transferred there starting an education consulting business, which took her to Africa to support a range of widening access projects.
Ellen tells us about the establishment of Texas Tech campus in Costa Rica, with a specific view to widening access to US higher education to Costa Ricans unable or unwilling to leave the country. She shares the initial challenges as the campus opened just before the Covid 19 pandemic, and how now it is recruiting from all over the region and beyond, and talks about the work they are doing to bring technical education programs to Costa Rica, as well as other countries in South America. Ellen tells us of her passion for helping realise people’s potential through international education… and of one of her most memorable experiences, helping students in Mozambique successfully apply for international education scholarships that changed their lives, and helped them contribute back to their local communities.
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Prof Graham Kendall, Deputy Vice-Chancellor (Research and Quality Assurance) MILA University, and former CEO/Provost at the University of Nottingham Malaysia tells us how he decided to go to university at age 34 after a career in the IT industry. Having been offered a PhD at the University of Nottingham he decided to stay on in academia, eventually going to Malaysia as Vice-Provost and then CEO/Provost of the University of Nottingham Malaysia campus. Graham and I reminisce about the high-level policy conversations that we were having at the time to explore closer cooperation between the UK and the Malaysian Qualifications Agency (MQA) on the quality assurance and regulation of UK TNE. Graham shares some of the regulatory challenges involved in offering education programmes overseas in multiple locations, and the efforts required to underpin a sense of common institutional belonging across international outposts. Graham also stresses the critical function that international education plays in broadening professional and individual horizons … and shares the memorable experience of being asked to confer degrees for the first time by former Vice-Chancellor of the University of Nottingham, David Greenaway, the first of many future times where he would stress the transformative power of international education
Roger Jr. Chao Assistant Director and Head of Education Youth & Sports at the ASEAN Secretariat tells us how his international education journey started when studying, on an Erasmus Mundus scholarship, a European Master in lifelong learning policy and management at Aarhus University, Denmark. This experience played a critical role in helping him understand and appreciate the value and significance of the Bologna Process which led to the creation of a European Higher Education Area, eventually helping him contribute to translating the European experience in Southeast Asia. Roger Jr. tells us of the specific challenges facing the realisation of a common higher education area in the ASEAN region, and shares his insights into how different countries in the region are looking to internationalise their HE sector, including his home country, the Philippines, which is currently considering establishing an international hub in the CEBU province. Roger Jr. stresses his interest in promoting the notion of internationalisation for all, or as he refers to it 'comprehensive internationalisation', key to widening access to international education, and he reflects on the role that TNE can play in the process... and he shares the memorable experience of having been able to translate his PhD considerations into reality through his involvement in the development and launch of the roadmap on ASEAN higher education space.
Horia Onița, Head of the European Higher Education Area and former president of the European Students' Union (ESU) tells us how he started to be involved in international education through student activitism, which led him to cover the role of President of the national student union in Romania and subsequently President of the European Student Union. Horia shares with us insights of his involvement in the Bologna Process, including most recently contributing to the drafting committee of the Tirana EHEA Ministerial Conference Communique. He shares his interest in the quality assurance of TNE, now increasingly at the centre of EHEA and international debates with the development of European Universities and the momentum associated the Global Recognition Convention, raising important questions about the quality of the TNE student experience. Horia also stresses the importance of continuing to highlight to stakeholders the value of an international education to individuals and communities, and leveraging digital technology to widen access to international education... and shares the memorable experience of addressing the Tirana ministerial Conference highlighting the centrality of students experience in the further development of the EHEA.
Professor Hans de Wit, founding director of the Center for International Higher Education at Boston College, and the Centre for Higher Education Internationalisation at Università Cattolica del Sacro Cuore , and founding member and past-President of the EAIE: European Association for International Education. Hans shares with us the development of his interest in international education and the main turns in his professional journey, starting as a master’s student in social anthropology doing research work in Peru. His initial interest in international development eventually turned into an interest in international cooperation in education, which led him to the idea of establishing a network of people in Europe involved in developing Erasmus programs and exchange agreements. This initiative resulted in the creation of the EAIE already attracting over 600 people at its first event in 1989. Hans also shares how the view of the critical importance of cooperation in international education has shaped his work and thinking over the years, focusing increasingly on the need to make internationalisation more inclusive and socially responsible, moving beyond the traditional exclusive attention in the Global North on student mobility and income generation. He shares his concerns on today’s processes of fragmentation and growing threats to academic freedom… and the rewarding experience of working with colleagues such as Elspeth Jones and Betty Leask in starting to emphasize the importance of 'international at home' as a way to widening access to an international education experiences.
Simon Margison, Emeritus Professor former Director of the Centre for Global HE at University of Oxford, Associate Professor at the University of Melbourne, and Honorary Professor at Tsinghua University, tells us of how he started his international education journey with a teaching position in International Education at Monash University straight after obtaining his PhD. Simon shares his interest in the geopolitics of international, and his concerns about current geopolitical developments affecting international education, in particular the confrontation between the United States and China, and nativists pushback against migration in many countries. He stresses the importance for the international education sector to keep cooperation going to minimise the damage of current geopolitical dynamics, and reflects on the role that TNE could play in this context, and how today’s global challenges, such as climate change, might help keeping venues for international cooperation open. Simon also shares his views about different national and regional approaches to international education … and a memorable international study on massification of higher education he was part of concluding that the trend is not driven by the economy but by families’ aspirations of wanting better lives for their kids.
Jason Lane, Professor of International Education and special advisor to the President at the University of Illinois, Director of the Institute for Leadership and Governance in Higher Education, and co-founder of the Cross Border Education Research Team, tells us how he entered into the international education space through an initial interest in international affairs when he was back in high school and took part of the Model United Nations. As an academic his initial focus on the governance of higher education in US led him to look at branch campus overseas and the associated geopolitics. Jason shares his concerns about the current shifting geopolitical dynamics, associated with a realignment of states and a move away from cooperation and open borders. He reflects on the consequences of anti-immigration policies for the financial viability of higher education providers in the US, and how this might incentivise a growth in TNE provision, like we are seeing for the UK and Australia. We reflect on the US predominant approach to TNE, based on branch campuses and study abroad activity, and on how more countries are opening up to TNE as receiving or sending countries, we share similar experiences of getting lost on the way back from Nottingham Ningbo,… and Jason recall his memorable experiences of setting up the CBERT with Kevin Kinser and joining as a young academic the OECD International Management in Higher Education programme in Paris .
Daniel Palm, Founder and Managing Director, at Catalina Global, and former Associate Vice President of International Affairs at the University of Arizona tells us how his journey in international education started as an undergraduate student when he went to China to study Mandarin, ending up staying for 5 years. This experience eventually enabled him to support US universities seeking to develop academic partnerships in China, and subsequently TNE operations in different regions. Daniel tells us how he led the development of the University of Arizona’s micro-campus in Kazakhstan, working closely with the Ministry of Higher Education in the country to navigate regulatory challenges and find ways to support access through scholarships for students with disabilities. Daniel also tells us about the way the micro-campus model works, his interest in the quality assurance of #TNE, and the challenges of navigating different stakeholders' interests when developing international partnerships. He shares how his passion for international education and developing partnerships is ultimately rooted in his view of citizen diplomacy and the power of this softer diplomacy in shaping international relations… and the memorable conversations with people he encountered traveling worldwide, many of whom he continues to engage with both personally and professionally.
Guy Perring, Regional Director Asia at Etio (formerly i-graduate), tells us how his international education experience started as an exchange student of American Literature at the University of North Carolina, and eventually as English language teacher in Japan. This experience took him to the British Council, where he went to lead on education promotion in Malaysia in the very early days of TNE expansion in the region. Guy tells us of his current work with the International Student Barometer in Asia sharing insights into the international student experience across the region, and stressing the importance of familiarising local communities about the benefits of international education. He also points to the trends towards the regionalisation of internationalisation, increasingly observable in Asia, and how from an originally Western concept international education is increasingly being appropriated and approached in different ways in different countries… and he shares the memorable experience of taking a Times Higher Education reporter around different TNE operations in Malaysia at a time when TNE was barely on the map on the UK, and observing the interest that the resulting piece received in the sector.
Martijn van de Veen, Chief Business Development Officer at ICEF, shares with us how his interest in international education started with an internship in France where he was able to appreciate the value of learning other languages and cultures. Martijin tells us of his time as Director General of the International Student Identity Card, and the work that occupies him now at ICEF. He shares with us the importance for the international student recruitment sector to embrace digital transformation and the critical importance of underpinning confidence in the quality of recruitment agents. We talk about different regional and national perceptions towards agents, the role of aggregators, the value that the sector still places on meeting with each other, and reflects on the journey of growth and diversification of the international student industry, with more options for study, both in terms of modality and geographical destination, at a time when the traditional Big Four receiving countries are placing restrictions to inbound mobility… and he shares the experience of being at the receiving end of cultural surprise and inter-cultural learning during a trip in Japan.
Professor Mushtak Al-Atabi, Provost and CEO at Heriot-Watt University Malaysia tells us hoáw his international education journey started when he travelled from Iraq to Malaysia in 1997, where, whilst working as a mechanical engineer, joined Taylor's College as a teacher and a PhD student. As Taylor’s College started engaging in TNE partnerships with the UK, he was directly involved in teaching TNE programmes from the start.Mushtak shares considerations on the implications of disruptive technologies such as AI for education, how international education contributes to human flourishing, the role that international students play in enriching local communities, the importance for policy makers to see international students and international education as a source of stability and growth, and how today’s global pressing political, economic and environmental challenges require building bridges not walls. He also tells us about Heriot-Watt's approach to global campuses, where the different locations in Edinburgh, Kuala Lumpur and Dubai are connected from the ground up ensuring that the quality of the learning experience is the same regardless where a students decide to study… and the memorable experience of the joy of student '1000th' transferring from the Malaysia to the Scottish campus as she was told she would receive a scholarship to go to the UK.
Antonio Miguel Lim, Senior Lecturer in Education and International Development at the University of Manchester takes us through his international education journey that started when he moved from the Philippines to France to pursue his further studies at Sciences Po, where he eventually supported establishing academic partnerships in East and Southeast Asia attracting students on degrees offered in English, then moving to LSE in UK one of the French university’s partners. Antonio Miguel tells us of his interest in the social production of value which led him to undertake a PhD on university rankings, looking at their role in creating value among universities and asking questions about the value of higher education. We talk about developments and initiatives in Southeast Asia aimed at leveraging internationalisation to strengthen intra-regional cooperation and mobility, as well as a recent study undertaken for the Asia Europe Foundation on universities’ engagement with SDGs, and we reflect on the role of international education in helping think about the global commons and build a sense of solidarity across nations vis-a-vis market-driven approaches to internationalisation… and the memorable and significant question of one of his students whether it was ok to refer to non-English language sources in her essay.
Bobby Mehta PVC Global Engagement, University of Portsmouth, tells us how his international education journey started on the clearing hotlines, an experience that eventually led him to support the international office in packing and sending boxes to British Council's fairs around the world. Bobby shares his views on how the work of international offices has changed over the years with the advancement of technology, and reflects on both current challenges for in-bound and out-bound student mobility associated with today’s unstable policy environment, and the growing opportunities for TNE as a broader range of developing countries are facing capacity shortages and are looking at ways to strengthen the quality and internationalise their HE sector. Bobby also shares the memorable experience of being given the opportunity to give back to the sector as Chair of the British Universities' International Liaison Association (BUILA).
Tayyeb Shah, Vice President of the European Association for International Education, and former Deputy Vice Chancellor Global Partnership at the University of Western Australia, tells of his initial involvement in international education as the inaugural international director at Kings’ College University of London. Tayyeb shares his reflections on how academic power is moving east and the implications of this reconfiguration for international student recruitment and TNE. He emphasises the need to consider the environmental impact of international education and the important work of the Climate Action Network for International Education, as well as the need to promote inclusive internationalisation, such as through collaborative online international learning. He reflects on the growing strategic importance of TNE, increasingly being considered now as an internationalisation strategy also by research-intensive universities, and growing expectations for mutually beneficial TNE partnerships… and the many memorable conversations, often late at night, conducive to deeper reciprocal understanding and partnership building.
Leina Shi, Director of Education at British Council China, tells us how her international education journey started studying English at secondary school, which eventually motivated her to come to the UK for her undergraduate studies. Leina shares her experience of international education opening opportunities to students and her view of the importance of creating international platforms bringing together different perspectives to create collective knowledge and explore solutions to shared challenges. She stresses the role that international education and the British Council play in providing such a platform, helping in the process to improve and deepen reciprocal understanding and changing individual mindsets and perspectives. Leina also reflects on the current state of UK-China relationships in education, looking at future developments, and stressing the need to improve the quality of UK-China conversation based on better informed views of both countries’ needs and priorities… and recollects the memorable experience of accidentally meeting a former student who benefitted from being admitted for her UK degree without formal qualifications.
Alison Barrett MBE, Country Director at British Council India, tells us how her connection with international education started as a young English teacher volunteer in Nepal, which opened up her eyes to what one can learn from international exposure. She tells us how her professional career took her in different countries in Asia, first as a language teacher, and then within the British Council covering different roles. Alison shares her insights about the different priorities for international education across the region, ranging from TNE, English as Medium of Instruction, and regional harmonization. Focusing on India we discuss the implications of the National Education Policy 2020, which has created a favourable policy environment for international engagement, and consider India’s ambitious goals for internationalising its HE sector, such as increasing its international student population from the current 50,000 to 500,000 in 2035, including by leveraging the power of TNE…and the rewarding experiences of seeing how international education has impacted the professional journey of people she has worked with over the years.
Nishat Riaz, Global, head of higher education systems and internationalization and TNE lead at the British Council tells us how the seeds of her passion for international education started as a young child in a small, rural, remote valley in the Punjab mountains, where she began to connect with other cultures by reading books from different countries. This intercultural experience became a reality when she joined the British Council. In her different roles, including as Head of Education at British Council Pakistan, she was able to appreciate the power of international education in developing the empathy and ethics required to overcome cultural divides and unhelpful polarisations, and in developing and sharing the knowledge and solutions needed to address common challenges.
Nishat shares her reflections on the potential of technological innovation to break down geographical barriers, warning about the risks of creating digital divides, and stressing the importance of making international education inclusive, and the critical role that equitable TNE partnerships can play in fostering mutual learning and respect for diverse ways of thinking. She also shares her insights into developments in the Pakistan higher education landscape as the country is turning to international education to meet the education and training needs of the 5th most populous country where 60% of the population is under 30… and the memorable experience of meeting at the airport a beneficiary of the Scottish Pakistan scholarship program she managed, as the student was embarking on her first international journey through a scholarship in the UK.
Lotus Postrado, Country Director of British Council Philippines, tells us of her first engagement with international education when working with the Southeast Asian Ministers of Education (SEAMEO), Organization Regional Institute for Higher Education Development (RIHED), where she was involved in the multiregional AIMS (Asian Ministers of Education and Ministers of Higher Education) mobility programme. She then moved to the British Council Philippines to lead on TNE and UK-Philippines relations in higher education. We talk about the changing policy landscape in the Philippines for TNE, and existing challenges and opportunities, including growing international student mobility in the country and growing interest in international education hubs in the country ... and she shares the memorable experience of accompanying the first high-level delegation of Philippines universities to the UK to start exploring partnership opportunities
Tamsin Thomas, Senior Strategic Engagement Manager at Duolingo, former Research Manager at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, and Higher Education Manager at British Council USA, tells us of her first introduction to international education as an undergraduate student in international relations, which brought her to Canada for a study abroad period, and subsequently motivated her work in international offices at different UK universities. Tamsin shares her passion for practical solutions capable of driving social mobility and scale up access to education opportunities, and how this passion led her to join Duolingo to support initiatives to reduce barriers to quality education unlocking the potential of digital solutions, such as the Duolingo English online test. She reflects on the challenges facing universities having to find new stability in the context of today’s disruptive dynamics, from technological innovation to geopolitical tensions… and she shares the memorable experience of having to explain the potential consequences of the Scottish independent referendum to concerned prospective students when at the British Council USA, which helped with managing similar questions in the aftermath of Brexit.
Hayley Shields, partner at Edified and former Director of Student Experience at Education New Zealand shares how unable to take on the opportunity to study internationally herself she eventually joined University of New South Wales in Australia to help with growing international student recruitment. Hayley tells of the work Edified is doing to help universities improve customer services when it comes to student recruitment, based on the findings of their inquiry experience tracker, and she shares the work they did at Education New Zealand in response to raising concerns about the welfare of international students, which lead to the development of national policy around international student well-being embedded in the New Zealand International Education Strategy. She reflects on the role of technology in supporting universities with applications volume, and the importance of enhancing the employability of international students by supporting them in finding internships…and the memorable experience of volunteering for the Harpswell Foundation to support girl’s access to education in Cambodia
Maria Kelo, Director of Institutional Development at the European University Association, tells us how her international education journey started as an undergraduate student at the London School of Economics, which took her to Brussels for a traineeship at the European Commission in the Higher Education Policy Unit. This latter experience set the tone for her career which led her taking the role of Director of the European Association for Quality Assurance in Higher Education (ENQA), before joining the EUA. Maria tells of her interest and experience in international cooperation at policy level, in particular in the context of the Bologna process, and shares insights on current developments in the European Higher Education Area, such as conversations around European Degrees, the quality assurance and recognition of joint programmes, and the revision of the European Standards and Guidelines. She reflects on the needs for universities to be future oriented and prepared to adapt to change, such as advancement in AI and digital technology, and the changing political landscape in Europe less favourable than before to internationalisation … and she shares the memorable moments of the approval of the 2015 ESGs revision by the Bologna ministerial conference, and ending up reading in a private mass to the Pope when carrying out an ENQA review of the Holy See Quality Assurance Agency.
Nadia Badrawi, President of the Arab Network for Quality Assurance in Higher Education, member of the CHEA International Quality Group Advisory Council, and founder and first CEO of the National Authority for Quality Assurance and Accreditation of Education in Egypt, tells us of how her international education journey started with a grant from US AID for a study visit to the USA to learn about curriculum development in Paediatrics. This experience led her to be involved with the World Federation of Medical Education and eventually with quality assurance. Nadia shares with us how she sought to take these international lessons back to Egypt, and how through the support of the World Bank she led the establishment of the Egyptian quality assurance system and agency. She tells of the recent growth of TNE in Egypt and the Arab region, the quality assurance challenges associated with TNE, and the importance of international cooperation in quality assurance... and recalls the long lasting professional links and friendships she made along the way
Angela Yung Chi Hou, Professor of Higher Education at National Chengchi University, former CEO of the Higher Education Evaluation & Accreditation Council of Taiwan, and former Vice-President of the Asian Pacific Quality Network, tells us of how her international education journey started as an early academic scholar interested to understand the USA higher education sector and the motives behind its international reputation. This led her to an interest in comparative education. Angela shares how she was able to draw on her research on international education and engagement in international quality assurance, to support the internationalisation of Taiwan HE, including through the internationalisation of the national quality assurance and accreditation system. Angela also shares some of the challenges, opportunities, and developments associated with the internationalisation of Taiwan HE, her experience of developing double degrees... and the memorable experience of a mapping exercise with the Malaysia Qualifications Agency, which led to a mutual recognition agreement.
Fanta Aw executive director and CEO of NAFSA: Association of International Educators, tells us how her first exposure to international education started at a young age when she moved from Mali to Liberia and eventually Washington where she attended international schools with students from various countries. This experience instilled in her a lifelong appreciation for diverse cultures and a sense of global citizenship.
Fanta emphasizes the need to demonstrate the value of international education to society, particularly in a time of geopolitical tensions, stressing how international education fosters interconnectedness, enabling positive change through peaceful people-to-people exchanges. She highlights the need to address equity and access advocating for "internationalization at home" initiatives which can bring global perspectives to those unable to study abroad, and stresses the importance of creating spaces where diverse voices are heard, fostering respectful dialogue and addressing the root causes of fear and polarization in society… and she shares the feeling of gratitude for having been able to experience our shared humanity through the memorable human connections in international education
Piet Van Hove, past president of the European Association for International Education (EAIE) and current program manager of the Heroes European University Alliance at the Thomas More University of Applied Sciences, tells how he was immersed in international education from a very young age, as he was born in the US whilst his father was completing his doctoral studies and moved back to the US for a year at the age of 10 where he attended an American primary school. After graduating from law school he began immediately working in international higher education. Piet shares his concerns about the current political climate in many countries, which often view international higher education negatively, and emphasizes the importance of demonstrating the positive impact of international higher education on society as a whole, specifically its role in strengthening the social fabric by offering international and intercultural experiences to all students. Piet shares his experience as president of the EAIE, reflecting on key developments, challenges, and opportunities for European higher education, including the role that European University Alliances play in promoting international collaboration across all levels of higher education institutions… and he shares the memorable experience of an Erasmus Mundus program with South Africa and China where he witnessed the transformative impact of international education on students from underrepresented backgrounds.
Charles Cormack, founder and managing director of Cormack Consultancy Group, tells us how his interest in international education began in 1999 when he started a company to support British companies working in Central and Eastern Europe. He soon discovered that there was a high demand for UK higher education, leading him to focus on TNE. Charles reflects on how TNE will become increasingly important due to factors like migration pressures, the global climate crisis, and the potential of online learning. He advocates for equitable TNE partnerships, requiring universities to move away from a recruitment-focused mindset and towards genuine two-ways collaboration with partner institutions, considering the needs of host locations. Charles also shares his interest in the role of technology in making education more affordable and accessible, his work on a very successful twinning programme between UK and Ukrainian universities.., and the memorable experience of a conference in Warsaw marking the achievements of this twinning programme and being appointed to the board of Mariupol State University
Kyuseok Kim, Center Director at IES Abroad Seoul, tells us how his interest in international education began as a teaching assistant at an international summer school program in South Korea, where he worked closely with a broad range of international faculty and students. This experience contributed to his decision to work in the international education sector, including eventually at Suny Korea, the first and the largest US campus in South Korea, operating within Incheon Global Campus education hub. KS shares his passion for facilitating transformative international education experiences for students, and how he has been able to put this passion into practice in his current work as the inaugural Director of IES Abroad Seoul. KS also shares his insights into the challenges and opportunities associated with the internationalisation of the South Korean higher education sector, and South Korea’s ambition to become an international hub in Asia, pointing to the South Korea’s strategic need to attract more international students to offset the decline in the domestic student population. KS reflects on the impact of technology and AI to enhance the learning experience of students, foster more inclusive and diverse learning environments, and embed sustainability in education...and shares the memorable experience of taking part in the Korean International Education Administrators (KIEA) Program, allowing him to understand the US education system from within.
Professor Andrew Atherton, Vice-President International and Engagement at the University of Southampton, tells how his involvement with international education started as an undergraduate students at SOAS where he studied Chinese and economics spending his second year in Beijing, eventually pursuing his Masters’ at Yale in the States where he also started his academic career, before moving back to the UK to Durham University. Andrew tells us of the University of Southampton’s strategic goal to become a global institution embracing a multi-nodal model with campuses in diverse international locations and progressing with establishing the first foreign branch campus in India under the University Grants Commission (UGC) regulations. He reflects on the broader strategic drivers behind the University's goal of establishing three branch campuses by 2030, stressing the role that TNE can play in helping institutions take their social mission to widen access to education to the global level. He shares his concerns about recent policy developments restricting international student flows in traditionally receiving anglophone countries, as well as his confidence in the future of international education where TNE will be playing a growing role in meeting growing global demand for education and training closer to home… and he shares the memorable experiences associated with achieving something collectively that you couldn't on your own.
Andreas Corcoran, Deputy Secretary General of the International Association of Universities (IAU), shares his global education journey, which brought him to study in various European countries and the United States and culminated with postgraduate studies at the European University Institute in Fiesole, Florence. His professional steps after graduating took him to Canterbury in the UK and Rome as Director of Higher Education in charge of the academic and organisational development of a newly established university in Tanzania. Andreas reflects on the vital role IAU plays in fostering global dialogue and collaboration among universities, addressing key challenges like those related to the SDGs, articulating the continued value and relevance of higher education in today’s fast changing world, and overcoming competition in an increasingly commodified international higher education landscape. He also emphasizes the importance of adopting fair, ethical approaches to internationalization, advocating for the equitable circulation of knowledge, students,… and shares the memorable experience of an elderly man in Kenya showing him the tree under which he received his first formal education, which reminded him of education’s critical role in nurturing curiosity and passing knowledge from one generation to the next.
Chakroun tells us of his first involvement in international education through an international teachers’ training programme in Tunisia. He shares his primary motivation is the pursuit of leaving no one behind in education, and outlines how UNESCO is supporting the widening access agenda captured in SDG4, through normative instruments, such as conventions and recommendations, policy dialogues, like the High-Level Steering Committee that monitors SDG4 implementation, and the collection and dissemination of data on education trends like the Global Monitoring Report, which tracks progress on SDG4 targets. Chakroun emphasizes the Global Recognition Convention as a crucial instrument for international cooperation, and the importance of creating an integrated ecosystem with all key stakeholders in international education including universities, quality assurance and qualification recognition bodies, and teacher representatives. Borhene also stresses the role of the Convention in supporting life-long learning by facilitating the encouraging the recognition of learning acquired in diverse settings, including non-formal and informal contexts …and he shares the memorable experiences of the adoption of the 2015 agenda in Incheon which included for the first time the lifelong learning agenda, and a skills development project in Malawi providing access to foundational skills through community learning centers
This is the last episode of Experiences of International Education. The journey comes full circle as the podcast concludes where it all began—with a conversation with Brandon Lee. In this episode, I take a turn to share my personal journey through international education. I also reflect on key insights gained from engaging with over 50 experts and practitioners from around the globe. One of my biggest takeaways is that international education is not just a profession—it represents a shared, normative vision of how we can live together in a globally interconnected world. This community not only values and celebrates diversity but also recognizes its power to address the pressing challenges of our time, and help us becoming better versions of ourselves. This collective vision can sometimes be overshadowed by the demands of our daily work. My hope with this podcast series was to hold up a mirror to the international education community, reminding us of the incredible force for change and good that we can be when we work together.